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    Build a PC: Simple Questions - November 13, 2020

    Build a PC: Simple Questions - November 13, 2020


    Simple Questions - November 13, 2020

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 04:11 AM PST

    This thread is for simple questions that don't warrant their own thread (although we strongly suggest checking the sidebar and the wiki before posting!). Please don't post involved questions that are better suited to a [Build Help], [Build Ready] or [Build Complete] post. Examples of questions:

    • Is this RAM compatible with my motherboard?
    • I'm thinking of getting a GTX 1070. Which one should I get?
    • I'm on a very tight budget and I'm looking for a case < $50

    Remember that Discord is great places to ask quick questions as well: http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/wiki/livechat

    Important: Downvotes are strongly discouraged in this thread. Sorting by new is strongly encouraged.

    Have a question about the subreddit or otherwise for /r/buildapc mods? We welcome your mod mail!

    Looking for all the Simple Questions threads? Want an easy way to locate today's thread? This link is now in the sidebar below the yellow Rules section.

    submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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    300€ Used Parts PC Build. Two weeks of searching eBay Classifieds (Germany) and a little bit of Amazon

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 04:50 AM PST

    The Parts

    I bought the Phanteks P300A case two weeks ago (amazing case if you want a smaller case with airflow and have a few extra fans from a previous build) to replace my Corsair Spec-05 and the old case was just laying around. I decided to see if I could build an extremely cheap gaming pc with the old case, a wraith spire cooler and a 500gb HDD that also weren't being used, this is the result:

    CPU/Mobo/RAM/Soundcard Bundle 155€

    - R5 1600x / Asus Prime B350-Plus / 16gb (2x8) Crucial Ballistix Sport 2400mhz / Asus Xonar DGX

    Graphics card 52€

    - 3GB Sapphire Radeon R9 280X Vapor-X Tri-X OC

    SSD 22€

    - 240gb Intenso "High"

    HDD (10€ / free)

    - Western Digital Blue 500gb

    Case (40€ / free)

    - Corsair Spec-05

    Cooler (free)

    - AMD Wraith Spire

    Case Fans Front 13€

    - 2x Arctic P12 PWM

    Case Fan Rear (free)

    - Phanteks stock fan (3-Pin)

    PSU (not pictured, arriving monday) 55€

    - BeQuiet System Power 9 600w Bronze Bulk

    Total Cost without Peripherals: 297€ or around 350€ if the cost of the case, hdd, cpu cooler is included, but due to the hassle of selling/shipping a used case I don't consider this an added cost. It and the other stuff I had already would likely have sat in my basement, possibly for years. All were previously just taking up space.

    I'm really happy with this result. I'll be visiting a friend next weekend in a city near mine and we'll build the PC there and do some gaming on it, I think he's going to buy it from me for 300€. I really like how this build turned out because it's incredibly cheap for what one can do with it, and as the GPU only cost 50€ I expect he'll upgrade to something like a used 580 8gb, 1060 or 1070 in the next year or so. Faster RAM would have been nice but I'm fairly sure we'll be able to overclock it to around 2666 or 2933mhz at some time in the future, but for now the graphics card is the likely bottleneck in most games and I doubt faster RAM would make any difference with this system.

    Edit: so this is what it feels like to make a post and think that no one will read it and then it blows up. Nice.

    submitted by /u/diasporajones
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    Any reason NOT to get a MicroCenter pre-built in my situation?

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 07:55 AM PST

    Trying to do a budget build for my kid for Christmas. In pricing everything out I'm coming in around $650. Then I noticed MicroCenter's prebuilt section and see almost the same build for $700 and I'm now trying to convince myself that I should still build my own but looking at the specs... I don't know anymore.

    Part Prebuilt My Build
    CPU Ryzen 5 3600 Ryzen 5 3600
    GPU RX 580 8GB USED RX 570 4GB
    Mobo ASRock B450M/AC ASRock B450M Pro4
    RAM 16GB DDR4-2666 16GB DDR4-3200
    Storage 500GB SSD 240GB SSD/2TB HHD
    PSU PowerSpec 600 Watt 80+ Bronze PowerSpec 550 Watt 80+ Bronze
    Case Lian Li mATX 205 Glass Cooler Master MasterBox Q300L
    OS Windows 10 Home Non-activated Windows

    For $50 more I can get a decent GPU upgrade and a legitimate OS with the prebuilt. Less storage, but buying a 2TB BarraCuda when needed in the future wouldn't be that big of a deal. Not sure if the RAM speed difference would be anything to worry about. I've built a PC before but I'm no expert, so there is a little time/stress savings with the prebuilt as well.

    She won't be playing demanding games. Mostly Fortnite and Minecraft. I may jump on for some newer FPS games here and there.

    From a spec perspective, any reason to try to still build my own?

    submitted by /u/Shpadoinkel
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    I need a new graphics card

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 05:35 AM PST

    Hi guys, I need to find myself a new graphics card because my old one broke down. I was using Asus NVIDIA Geforce GTX 760 2GB DDR5 and I am looking for a better one which is compatible with my computer. I am not smart at computers so any help is much appreciated. Here are my specs:

    CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.50GHz, 3501Mhz Processor
    Installed RAM: 8 GB
    Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V

    thanks a lot!

    submitted by /u/Kognak123
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    First PC for nephew

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 08:53 AM PST

    He's in the fifth grade and his Mom wants to get him a PC. I've been tasked with the job since I've built a few.

    He's going to play Roblox, Minecraft, and of course Fortnite. She has a budget of "around" $500.

    I struggled with this one, not knowing if I should go APU or low level GPU. This PCPP list is APU. I built it with future GPU in mind.

    Also, are all b450s shipped ready for Ryzen 3/4/5000?

    Please double check my work and I'm open to suggestions! Mahalo in advance 🤙🏽

    Ryzen APU Roblox/Fortnite

    submitted by /u/Alika80
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    The final 4... ram selection

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 07:51 AM PST

    Trying to decide on between these 4 ram options (it just so happen to all be G.SKILL). I was edging towards doing 32GB due to my enjoyment of modded games + streaming/editing, however I am still conflicted on 16 CL timing vs 18 CL timing. I am going to be using Ryzen 7 3700x which is the reason for 3600mhz on all of these.

    Should I do 16GB for the 16 CL timing or is 32GB 18 CL just fine

    Bonus: Will I be able to "tighten" the timing of a 32GB 18 CL? I've seen it sporadically during my research.

    Name Price Link GB size CL Timing Mhz RGB
    G.SKILL Ripjaws V $148 link 32 16 3600 No
    G.SKILL Trident Z Neo $130 link 32 18 3600 Yes
    G.SKILL Trident Z Neo $105 link 16 16 3600 Yes
    G.SKILL Ripjaws V $79 link 16 16 3600 No
    submitted by /u/TheDelposenGuy
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    Would this build work? $600-$700 gaming PC. Just want to make sure the parts are compatible, and that they will fit, and also if I can stick a Ryzen 5000 series processor in this later.

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 12:26 PM PST

    Build Help/Ready:

    What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better.

    Strictly gaming. Just trying to build the best gaming machine I can for the budget.

    If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? (Screen resolution, framerate, game settings)

    Medium to High game settings would be nice. 60 FPS would be nice. Used to 30FPS atm so... 60 would look amazing to me.

    What is your budget (ballpark is okay)?

    $700USD, but if I'm on the cusp of getting a part that's better or something, I could get some help.

    In what country are you purchasing your parts?

    USA

    **Post a draft of your potential build here (specific parts please).

    https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zyMPXb

    Provide any additional details you wish below.

    I might be interested in upgrading the processor to one of the new Ryzen 5000 series processors that came out on Nov 5th. But... way down the line in a year or two. Would this build support those? Should I switch out the mobo for something else that can later handle the 5000 series?

    NOTE: You do not have to follow this format, but please be sure to answer these questions. Please do not ask to simply be given a build. You are welcome to delete this section.

    submitted by /u/Malcolm1986
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    /r/gundeals for PC parts

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 01:14 PM PST

    I frequent a sub called gundeals to get in-stock alerts and deals on guns and gun parts. Surely there's an equivalent for PC parts. Would anyone be kind enough to direct me to such a subreddit? I'm looking to help a friend get an AMD Ryzen 5 5600X.

    Thank you!

    submitted by /u/its_j0hn
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    How often do you clean your PC and how do you go about doing it?

    Posted: 12 Nov 2020 04:47 PM PST

    Is this a good build ?

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 03:42 AM PST

    Processor :AMD Ryzen 3600XT

    Motherboard :MSI B450 Pro VDH Max

    Graphics : Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8G GDDR5

    Cabinet :DeepCool Mattrexx 55 V3 4F

    RAM :Adata Spectrix D60G DDR4 RGB 16GB (2*8GB) 3200MHz

    SSD :WD 240GB SSD

    HDD :WD 1TB Blue 5400RPM

    PSU :Antec NE550M 550W

    submitted by /u/zidanefaisalk
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    Asus TUF GAMING X570-PRO (WI-FI) and Ryzen 5 5600x only stable with SMT OFF. Please help

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 09:04 AM PST

    First the parts list: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/arogan/saved/#view=gG4BjX

    So I've built many PCs in the past but this is the first completely new build in about 7 years. This week has been a nightmare. The parts list is 100% exactly what I'm using except for the cpu since I still can't get my hands on a 5950x.

    A little background first: So at first I had it up and running for about 4 hrs no issues then a crash and a boot loop. Could never get back into windows. Couldn't even boot usb to reinstall windows. Tried pretty much everything including running MB outside the case and swapped every part except mb/cpu/ram. I'm on latest 2812 BIOS but even tried flashing back to 2802 which didn't help so I'm back on 2812. What finally worked was choosing oc tuner and letting it do it's thing, reboot, and bam everything booted. It's consistent. If I clear cmos or load optimized defaults I can no longer boot. As soon as I choose oc tuner it works. After it works I can change oc tuner back to keep my current settings and I can start fiddling with stuff and windows continues to boot.

    Tested memory with latest version of memtest86 and it did all 4 passes with zero erros.

    So on to the current issue. It wasn't stable. It would BSOD crash in 10 sec with prime95 and maybe if I was lucky 7 min into OCCT. Temps and voltages looked fine (cpu idle mid 30's never above 60 under full load). I used bluescreenviewer (screenshot) and most were ntoskrnl.exe. Full minidumps can be downloaded here. After days of trying all sorts of bios settings, voltages, ram timings (running default stock NOT XMP/DOCP) , and underclocking I finally found 1 thing that worked. Disabling SMT and having only 6 threads is rock solid. Over an our of prime95 and the full 1 hr test of OCCT completed fine. 4 hrs of Destiny 2 and not a single issue. So the weirdest thing is the menu setting under advanced | cpu configuration| SMT mode was missing! What I ended up doing was switching core leveling mode to 4 which seemed to disable SMT in the process (and also s3 standby :-( ) and then bumping it back up to automatic left me with 6 cores and 6 threads.

    I had tried to disable SMT first with AMD Ryzen master but as soon as I saved to reboot it immediately BSOD. I've got all the latest drivers installed and now the latest chipset drivers direct from AMD since they were newere than what was on the asus site.

    So I'm at a bit of a loss what to try next. Is this a motherboard rma situation? Is it a bad cpu? If I can get a 5950x I can at least test that theory out. Is it the memory I bought even though it passes memtest86? Have I not found the magical bios setting to fix things? Are amd ryzen systems suppose to be this hard to build? Should I just be patient and wait for a newer bios? I haven't built an AMD system in over a decade and this has been the biggest nightmare ever. I'd almost be ok leaving things as it is but not having s3 standby is a pretty big deal to me. I'm a little bit afraid to touch anything right now since I have it in this weird SMT disabled state (without any official bios way to do it) though I'm pretty sure I can reproduce this state again if I do the core leveling mode dance again. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

    submitted by /u/arogan
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    ASRock Radeon RX 5600 XT Challenger D 6G OC

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 05:21 AM PST

    Hello, I would like to ask some questions with you guys. At the moment I have the PoweColor Red Dragon RX 580 8GB GPU, which is good, but has its limitations. One thing that bothers me is that when it starts to stress it it ends up overheating and makes a lot of noise, the fans reach 3500+ rpm easy. Taking this into account, I am looking for a new GPU, I believe it is the only thing left to finish my setup now.

    Today I have the following: CPU: Ryzen 5 3600; Memory: 2x8 DDR4 3000MHz Motherboard: Prime B450-Gaming/br; PSU: Corsair 600W.

    I took a look at some video card models and found a very interesting one, which is a model from the RX 5600 series with the availability of an update on vBIOS that claim to achieve results similar to 2060 and RX 5700 cards. The card in question is ASRock Radeon RX 5600 XT Challenger D 6G OC. To have a significant difference, I compared almost all the models more expensive than this card in the best online store in my country, the only one that I found with all the parameters better than it is the MSI AMD Radeon RX 5700 MECH GP OC card. The big difference I saw between these two is that the 5600 still has less than 60fps in some recent AAA games when played in the ultra, like Tom Clancys Ghost Recon Wildlands, which does not happen with MECH OC 5700 which gets over 60fps in all games tested by GameDebate.

    The analyzes and comparisons I made through the information on the manufacturer's website and on the Versus website. What bothers me is that I can't find a single review of the Challenger D card, just a few speculations here on Reddit, which say that because it is from ASRock it is very likely that the card will get too hot and make a lot of noise, but without any confirmation. I was able to find a comparison of the card's specifications before and after the vBIOS update, if it is interesting:

    Before | After

    My questions are as follows: * 1. Does anyone have this GPU and can tell me the temperature and noise level that come in times of stress? If you know about review out there I would also be grateful; * 2. Is it worth buying an RX 5600 with these specifications at this price? Taking into account that with the update of vBIOS it reaches the same speed of memory of several models of the RTX2060, RTX2060S and RX 5700; * 3. Is it worth adding more money to buy the MECH model of the 5700 which is even better, but more expensive? * 4. Is there a cheaper or better alternative that I am not seeing?

    submitted by /u/Geraltwitcher
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    $600 (£550) PC Build

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 01:15 PM PST

    Ryzen 5 3400G

    B450-A Motherboard

    2x4GB 3000mhz Ram

    240GB SSD (I have a 500GB HDD Lying around i can use)

    RX 580

    CIT FLASH Case

    450W PSU

    Is this alright for light Gaming and some streaming of minecraft? :)

    submitted by /u/Gamingwithpugz
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    Should I upgrade my C15 3000mhz 32GB RAM to a C16 B DIE 3600mhz 16GB RAM?

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 01:01 PM PST

    Hey guys.

    I currently have a Corsair Vengeance LED Red 32gb (2x16gb) ram c15 3000mhz. I recently upgraded to a Ryzen 3700x, Asus TUF Gaming Plus Wifi, RX 5700xt. Im thinking about upgrading to a B Die 3600mhz C16 16gb (2x8gb) ram. I've done a lot of research but it's kinda mixed between people saying go for it and some saying not to go for it.

    On top of that, my Corsair Vengeance isn't in the QVL list of my mobo too but its still running fine though.

    So do you guys think it's worth the upgrade? Im not planning on buying the 32gb B Die's though as it's too expensive atm. And I don't do overclocking as it's really not for me. I'll do docp and that's it..

    I mainly use my pc for gaming with discord and etc. No editing and stuff.

    Any suggestions or comments will be appreciated.

    Thank you!

    submitted by /u/Visivius
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    Does the 3080 variants matter?

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 11:45 AM PST

    I'm just a average 4K gamer that isn't trying to do any extreme overclocking (if at all). And I also don't do any professorial work like rendering or stuff like that.

    Will there be any noticeable difference among the 3080 variants for someone like me?

    Also there was the whole "issue" with the compactors but I heard that's mostly been resolved via driver updates right?

    If you had to choose, which sub $750 3080 variant would you recommend? and why?

    submitted by /u/timhqhuyper
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    Last component arrived for first build! (3080 Aorus)

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 12:22 PM PST

    https://i.postimg.cc/tJfp3fQ7/17955-D21-068-A-4366-951-A-64007868022-E.jpg

    I'm sorry for such a lazy post, but none of my family or friends are into PC building so none of them can share my pure joy, so I figured you guys could sympathize with my excitement! This is my first build, and I decided to go big for it! I'm majoring in mechanical engineering and deep learning, so I figured a good build would have practical utilization (in addition to the occasional graphic design/gaming sessions).

    I'm at work now, but I will install it and post my finished build when I get home!

    Specs: Ryzen 5900X
    Aorus 3080 Master
    32GB 3200 C16 Corsair RGB Pro
    Asus Prime-Pro X570
    Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360
    465x Corsair iCue Case

    submitted by /u/McSlayR01
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    Tips for buying 3000 series cards and 5000 series processors.

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 09:56 AM PST

    1. Micro center is the quickest and most reliable way to get either of the 2. Be in line before 7 am on Monday-Friday and you most likely will get one. Although, stock is not guaranteed, its more reliable than online websites. Join this discord for more information on common arrival times for your Micro center.

    2. Using a bot that notifies you when their is stock. This bot will not buy anything for you but almost instantly notify you via email, phone, discord, ect. when stock changes. Try Nvidia snatcher.

    3. Use a discord to notify you on stock. The most reliable one imo is pcbuilderhelper. I've tried websites and other discords, but this one is what got me my card and is always the fastest.

    You can try refreshing best buy and Newegg constantly but its not worth the time. Good luck to everyone.

    submitted by /u/ChanceZLS19
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    Is this a good build for high or ultra settings?

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 07:37 AM PST

    GPU : NVIDIA RTX3070 GAMING SERIES 8GB MOTHERBOARD : INTEL MB MSI Z390-A PRO CPU : Intel Core i7-9700K/KF Processor 12M Cache, up to 4.90 CPU COOLER : DEEP COOL CASTEL 240 RGB V2 WATER COOLER RAM : TEAM GROUP DELTA RGB 16GB(8X2) 3200MHZ POWER SUPPLY: PS DEEPCOOL DA700 700W 80PLUS BRONZE HARD DISK : SSD TEAMGROUP CX2 1TB

    submitted by /u/Nafnaffow
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    Is 500-550W enough for RTX 3070?

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 07:39 AM PST

    Build Help/Ready:

    What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better.

    Gaming.

    If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? (Screen resolution, framerate, game settings)

    1080p. 60-165Hz.

    What is your budget (ballpark is okay)?

    N/A

    In what country are you purchasing your parts?

    Canada

    Post a draft of your potential build here.

    2x8GB RAM SSD + HDD Ryzen 2600/3600 500W/550W PSU

    Provide any additional details you wish below.

    Both my cousin and brother in law are thinking about getting a 3070. They have very similar builds except that the former has a Ryzen 2600, 165Hz monitor, and 500W PSU and the latter has a Ryzen 3600, 60Hz monitor, and 550W PSU.

    Is 500 or 550W enough for the 3070?

    It seems that 650W is recommended by the GPU manufacturers but based on benchmarks it shouldn't use up that much power.

    submitted by /u/casey130x
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    Can I perform a Qflash bios update with all components plugged into Motherboard?

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 12:24 PM PST

    So I have a Gigabyte B550 Gaming X motherboard, and I built everything, only to find out after that my Ryzen 5 5600 won't work without updating the bios. So I need to know, do I need to unplug everything before doing the Qflash bios update, or can I leave everything attached to the motherboard?

    submitted by /u/WavedArrow65219
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    Ryzen 9 5900x - How should I control it?

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 12:11 PM PST

    Hey guys! I recently build and I don't rlly know how to control my new processor. I have too many options and I don't know if they override themself or something. Do u know what program should I use? Ryzen Master, AISuite or allow bios (Asus optimal?) do it's thing?

    Build: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS Ryzen 9 5900X GTX 1660 Super (gigabyte) AiO 360mm cooling

    submitted by /u/Avgett
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    Custom CyberPower PC

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 12:09 PM PST

    Gaming Chassis: CyberPowerPC AMETHYST 240V Mid-Tower Gaming Case w/ Front & both Side Tempered Glass + 3x ARGB FANS (Black Color)

    CPU: AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X 3.8GHz [4.7GHz Turbo] 8 Cores/ 16 Threads 36MB Total Cache 105W Processor

    CPU / Processor Cooling Fan: Cooler Master Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition CPU Cooler w/ PWM fan - Efficient Cooling Performance

    Motherboard: ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS ATX w/ RGB, 2.5 Gigabit LAN, 2 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 6 SATA3, 2 M.2 SATA/PCIe

    RAM / System Memory: 16GB (8GBx2) DDR4/3200MHz Memory (Team T-Force Delta RGB)

    Video Card: ASUS GeForce RTX™ 3070 OC DUAL Edition 8GB GDDR6 Video Card (Ampere) [VR Ready] (Single Card)

    Power Supply: 800 Watts - Standard 80 Plus Gold Certified Power Supply

    Primary Hard Drive: 1TB SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 32MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Drive)(I already have a 1TB External SSD at home)

    PRICE:1660$ Is It Worth it?

    submitted by /u/Flowtactics
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    Seeing input on build

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 09:08 AM PST

    First of all, forgive my spelling. I meant to say "Seeking" in the title.

    PCPartPicker Part List

    Type Item Price
    CPU Intel Core i5-10600K 4.1 GHz 6-Core Processor $264.99 @ Newegg
    CPU Cooler Deepcool GAMMAXX 300 55.5 CFM CPU Cooler $20.99 @ Newegg
    Motherboard MSI MPG Z490 GAMING EDGE WIFI ATX LGA1200 Motherboard $199.99 @ Amazon
    Memory Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory $148.99 @ Newegg
    Storage PNY CS2130 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive $110.99 @ Best Buy
    Video Card NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 10 GB Founders Edition Video Card -
    Case NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case $69.98 @ Amazon
    Power Supply SeaSonic PRIME Titanium 750 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply -
    Operating System *Microsoft Windows 10 Home Full 32/64-bit $129.99 @ B&H
    Monitor LG 24MK400H-B 24.0" 1920x1080 75 Hz Monitor $109.99 @ Walmart
    Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
    Total $1055.91
    *Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-11-13 12:05 EST-0500

    Please ignore the monitor for the sake of price, as it is the exact monitor I currently have, and I included it in case it would impact wattage.

    I am mainly concerned if the case is valid. But if anyone decides to point out anything or offer suggestions, do feel free to say something, as I am open to input and this will be the first time I've ever built a PC.

    submitted by /u/Yukimare
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    Need new headset, comfort with glasses is a must

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 02:02 PM PST

    My cat - bless her demonic soul - decided to destroy my current headset, a pair of Astro 40 I got as a gift some time ago.

    These have been pretty nice for a while, and even though the ear pads and head band have been comfortable they are somewhat fragile and started falling apart on their own before the cat struck. Alongside the slide-adjust being weak and having them slide a lot, I don't think I'll go for another Astro pair.

    That said I'm trying to find either a new headset or a pair of headphones + a mic setup that are pretty good quality and are comfortable to wear with glasses on for an extended period of time.
    These are an important component for me in my profession so my budget is ideally between 120-230. If something is absolutely exceptional but exceeds the budget, I would consider it.

    Thanks for any suggestions!

    submitted by /u/JigglesMcRibs
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    Im trying to build a gaming pc my budget is $500-600 any recomendations?

    Posted: 13 Nov 2020 11:48 AM PST

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