Build a PC: Simple Questions - November 24, 2019 |
- Simple Questions - November 24, 2019
- MicroCenter run -- carpool from San Antonio to Houston this Wed.
- "build complete" First personal build in around 10 years
- Help a non computer savvy mum build her son a computer for Overwatch?
- First PC build in almost 15 years - am I on the right track?
- Corsair vengeance PRO RGB on sale today....good or bad ram?
- Micro Center - Ryzen 7 2700 for $130 or Ryzen 5 3600 for $190?
- Questions about internal HDDs
- Are there any PC cases currently in production where the entire front of the case is 5.25 bays? Hoping for 12.
- Rx 5700 underperforming ...
- Help me build a Christmas present
- My selected build for my first pc
- what case would be good for this pc? i have the cougar mx330 now but my gpu and cpu temps are kind of high.
- Gfx card for 3600
- I think i've got my final list of parts and i would like to know if you guys think its good. For the graphics card I'm intending to get a 1650 super as it is in my budget.
- GTX 1060 staying in fanless mode - overheating
- Can I mount a 120mm fan onto a NH-D15?
- Looking to buy a (budget) graphics card
- First PC build after years of dealing with dying laptops
- I Made A Subreddit For Integrated Graphics
- Need to know if their is anything I need to add
- Building a gaming PC
- In full panic mode over my first build
- 2x8 2666 RAM or 1x8 3600 RAM
- 144hz 1080p Max settings gaming build
Simple Questions - November 24, 2019 Posted: 24 Nov 2019 04:10 AM PST This thread is for simple questions that don't warrant their own thread (although we strongly suggest checking the sidebar and the wiki before posting!). Please don't post involved questions that are better suited to a [Build Help], [Build Ready] or [Build Complete] post. Examples of questions:
Remember that Discord is great places to ask quick questions as well: http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/wiki/livechat Important: Downvotes are strongly discouraged in this thread. Sorting by new is strongly encouraged. Have a question about the subreddit or otherwise for /r/buildapc mods? We welcome your mod mail! Looking for all the Simple Questions threads? Want an easy way to locate today's thread? This link is now in the sidebar below the yellow Rules section. [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MicroCenter run -- carpool from San Antonio to Houston this Wed. Posted: 24 Nov 2019 05:48 AM PST (Please delete if not allowed) -- for anyone in the San Antonio / Seguin area, I am sorely tempted to make a MicroCenter run to Houston and am seeking out one or two individuals who would like to make the trip, preferably this Wed. (11/27) Planning to get underway around 9am or so. I have a truck, plenty of room inside for two passengers plus acquired loot. If somebody has a car and prefers to drive, then I'm happy to pitch in for fuel costs. I'm on the NE side of S.A. towards Seguin. I don't mind doing this alone, but the trip seems more practical if the ride is shared. Plus, I could use a complete stranger to egg me on or talk me out of whatever bold purchases I'm about to make. Edit: clarity [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
"build complete" First personal build in around 10 years Posted: 23 Nov 2019 06:16 PM PST Upgrading from first gen i7 920. Basically a new dream machine to me. I've been out of the PC gaming world for a while. Waiting for sales to see if I can snag a cheaper 2tb Intel nvme for more game storage. Also purchased Valve Index VR kit with this, I've been using Playstation VR up until now. And "Combed" Cable mod: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C735N9C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 OC'd to 5Ghz [PCPartPicker Part List] [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Help a non computer savvy mum build her son a computer for Overwatch? Posted: 23 Nov 2019 05:44 PM PST Here is what I have; please note that I am Canadian and using memory express site to build, with a budget of $1000. Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-04 Mid Tower Gaming Case, Black / Red w/ Side Window AMD Ryzen™ 5 2600 Processor, 3.4GHz w/ 19MB Cache MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX w/ DDR4-2666, 7.1 Audio, M.2, Gigabit LAN, PCIe x16, 2-Way CrossFireX Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 3200MHz Kit (2x8GB), Black Kingston A2000 M.2 NVMe PCIe x4 SSD, 500GB Gigabyte GC-WB867D-I Wireless AC WiFi & Bluetooth v4.2 Card, PCI-E Corsair CX Series CX650M Semi-Modular Power Supply, 650W I intend to use his current video card (ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card) until his birthday in May, and then buy something like this as an upgrade: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2060 WINDFORCE 6GB PCI-E w/ HDMI, Triple DP Please tell me if this will be a huge improvement over an off the shelf Acer that he got 3-4 years ago when it comes to Overwatch? Any recommendations welcome! Edited to add, for those asking: ASUS 24" FHD 144Hz 1ms GTG TN LED Gaming Monitor Corsair Scimitar PRO RGB 16000 DPI Optical Gaming Mouse Corsair K95 RGB Platinum Backlit Mechanical Cherry MX Speed Gaming Keyboard He has very specifically mentioned Overwatch and Overwatch 2 for games he is playing, and I know he ventures into World of Warcraft every once in a while. This post blew up!! I greatly appreciate the suggestions, please keep them coming! Hoping to get some good deals and have this purchased by the end of next weekend, so I'm taking notes for where I can put the extra money if I luck out with pricing :) [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
First PC build in almost 15 years - am I on the right track? Posted: 24 Nov 2019 06:46 AM PST What will this PC be used for? This will be my first desktop in more than 12 years. Uses: Some gaming (including VR gaming), photo editing and modelling in programs such as Sketch-Up, AutoCAD and Unity. I will be pairing the PC with a 144hz monitor. If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? I'm a bit out of the gaming scene, so don't really have much to compare it to. I will not be 4k gaming, but I intend to hook this system up to a VR headset What is your budget (ballpark is okay)? Around €1,300 In what country are you purchasing your parts? Malta (so Amazon UK/Italy/Spain is best) Post a draft of your potential build here (specific parts please). Motherboard ASUS X570-Gaming Plus (WiFi) GPU SAPPHIRE Nitro+ Radeon RX 5700 XT 8G GDDR6 RAM 16GB Crucial Ballistix Sport LT BLS2K8G4D32AESBK 3200 MHz Storage Crucial CT1000P1SSD8 P1 1 TB Case NZXT 510 PSU Corsair CP-9020187-UK 750 W RM750x Fully Modular Provide any additional details you wish below. I live in Malta and delivery costs add up significantly if sourcing parts from different suppliers. Amazon Prime solves this. Tempted to downgrade the mobo to a B450 one and then use the savings to upgrade the GPU to a 2700 Super. Would that be a smart move? [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Corsair vengeance PRO RGB on sale today....good or bad ram? Posted: 24 Nov 2019 11:43 AM PST UPDATE: I went ahead and pulled the trigger. $61.00 after tax and with free shipping using Google Shopping code NOVSAVE19 was too good to pass up). So I just bought a Ryzen 5 3600 on sale, and plan on getting a Tomahawk max and 5700xt to pair with it (unless I find a good sale on an X570 during BF/CM). I noticed today what appears to be a solid deal on 3200 Corsair vengeance Pro RGB with 16-18-18-38 timings. With my google express code the price is like 60$ after tax which seems really good. From my reading, the "best" memory to get are the Samsung BDie memory kits but dang are those pricey! My question is this: I plan to game on my computer. Will this RAM be a mistake/ do I really need to get 3200 or 3600 ram with C16 if I'm not an "enthusiast"? Feel free to get technical, I don't want an answer that is just "b die for the win" without something to explain it. Thanks for any serious input. [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Micro Center - Ryzen 7 2700 for $130 or Ryzen 5 3600 for $190? Posted: 24 Nov 2019 09:20 AM PST I know the question of R7-2700 vs R5-3600 has been raised a number of times with the resounding advice always being to get a R5-3600. However, all of those threads were at times where the 2700 was the same cost or even more expensive than the 3600. I live about 20 minutes away from a Micro Center, which means I can buy a 2700 for $130 or a 3600 for $190 (they also have a 2700X for $160, but I don't think it's worth it over the 2700). If I go ahead with my planned build (32 GB RAM, mini ITX, RTX 2070) I will likely be spending somewhere between $850 and $950 (repurposing storage I already own). Is the Ryzen 5 3600 really worth a $60 price premium over a Ryzen 7 2700? And would I have to get an X570 motherboard for the 3600 (planning on going with a AsRock B450 Fata1ty ITX/ac for the 2700)? I'm planning to use the build for playing flight simulators (especially FS2020 when it comes out next year), Forza Motorsport/Horizon, and any other games I pick up. Also planning to use it for deep learning research (that's why RTX and not Radeon 5700 XT) and computer systems research (CPU/multicore heavy, 16 threads would be nice but 12 is likely sufficient). [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: 24 Nov 2019 01:02 PM PST Lately I've been running low of storage space on my external HDD and I thought it would be good idea to buy some internal HDDs for my build. I have FD Define C case(which have 2 slots for 3,5" drives) and only one drive(ssd) where windows and all my data is stored. I've been thinking about getting 2x 4TB HDD like Western Digital Blue or Seagate BarraCuda Few questions concern me: 1) Since I only have 2 slots I don't want to do raid 1(I like to live dangerously). Will they "decay" if they are connected to PC but not used? Let's say that I have PC turned on for 10 hours every day, but I'm writing or reading data from those drives only for 1 hour. How fast(approximately) will they die? 2) Should I go for spanned volume or raid 0? 3) Is HDD shipped with SATA cable? 4) Is there anything that I should do with new drives before putting my data on them? Run diagnostics, any programs, formatting them etc thanks! [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: 24 Nov 2019 07:40 AM PST I've been looking around and literally every single one I can find hasn't been made in years. List I made below, it's a handy reference. 12
11
10
9
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Posted: 24 Nov 2019 01:36 PM PST Hey guys, Upgraded to a Rx 5700 Sapphire Pulse but it's underperforming. I hope... On BF V I should get around 114 fps on Ultra. But I don't even get steady 60fps on low. I have uninstalled the GPU drivers with a DDU. Then I reinstalled the correct driver and updated mobo drivers. Still no change. I did a SuperPosition benchmark since this might help y'all. I can't figure out what to compare it to since all the cards on the site are XT versions, if I understand it correctly. Any questions or recommendations on what to do, I'm all ears... [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Help me build a Christmas present Posted: 24 Nov 2019 12:58 PM PST Hello r/buildapc My friend wants me to build a pc for her boyfriend for christmas, and she is looking for a PC that can run Fortnite in 4k at around 60FPS, I had found parts and such to build it but my parts total around $1400 USD, I was wondering if anyone here could help me build one that is less expensive, but I don't want to cheap out on parts and screw them over, any advice for each part would be appreciated, if you would like I could list current parts in an edit [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
My selected build for my first pc Posted: 24 Nov 2019 11:22 AM PST Hi all, I've finally decided it's time to join pc master race and build my own longterm computer. Here are the parts I've settled on: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Cdimech11/saved/zkzJbv I've done my fair share of research on reddit and have asked a cousin who builds his own about suggestions. That being said I'm still not sure on a few things and I really would appreciate your guys' input on my potential build. To put it easy, I'm looking for a build no more expensive than this, before tax that can run AAA titles at a steady 60+ fps on 1080p and 1440p (for an eventual moniter upgrade down the road). I'm not entirely sure if I'm going a little overkill on the performance in terms of my needs pricing because I dont personally dont care for a flashy build (rgb, etc) but rather a practical with great performance and ability to maintain and upgrade over the 5-7 years. One thing I'm stuck on my video card selection. the RX 5700 XT is within my budget and has great performance however seeing as it's still brand new, I've also read about many of issues involving the drivers including blue screens, black screens, audio issues and even extreme difficulty multi-tasking (many users cant play with chrome open). This has me leaning to the RTX 2070 Super which is about 100 more but also lacks these issues and makes up with only raytracing (which doesnt really matter to me) and slightly better performance. I'm comfortable with the 2070 S but if I can get a solid equivalent for cheaper than I would definitely bite. I plan on making these purchases next week during black friday and cyber monday I'm sure the price will drop a fair amount. I would really appreciate any advice you guys have to either cheapen the cost or get better for my money. And feel free to make any changes to the build. Also if you find any compatability issues (sizing, spacing,etc) or redundancies with my build please let me know. I'm particularly questioning the cooler since the case itself has 2 build in fans and the GPU has fans of it's own aswell but I'm not sure if they all do the same thing. EDIT: I should mention I live in Toronto Canada [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: 24 Nov 2019 11:11 AM PST Need a case with better airflow, i have 2 intake and 1 outtake fan but can get more if i need to, about $80 but up to $100 [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: 24 Nov 2019 11:36 AM PST Hi! I am missing the last part for my new system (casual player). Core parts parts: Ryzen 5 3600, Scythe Mugen 5, 16GB DDR4 3200, 500W be quite be quiet! PURE POWER 11 500W. I just cannot decide on the gfx-card. My screen right now is the LG 27MU67-B (27", 4K, Freesync, 60Hz). I would NOT play the games in 4k (rather full HD or WQHD with scaling). A new screen with WQHD 144 Hz might follow up in 2020. I want to try some AAA games but also older games like Overwatch, WoW. My choices (all cards are brand new, no 2nd hand) - 200€ ASRock Phantom Gaming X Radeon RX Vega 56 8G (blower style) - 250€ Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER OC 6G - 330€ PowerColor Radeon RX 5700 Red Dragon 8GB I'd pick the Vega56 but unfortunately its the blower design ... on the other hand im a casual player (max. 10h a week) - does the blower fan and power drain really matter that much (i'd undervolt the vega56 and 5700). What the best choice here? I guess the new 5700 ... but I just cannot overlook the Vega56 for that price (brand new). [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: 24 Nov 2019 06:59 AM PST
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GTX 1060 staying in fanless mode - overheating Posted: 24 Nov 2019 01:33 PM PST So I've been having this issue lately with my gigabyte gtx 1060 6 gb g1 gaming edition lately. I'll be in a game and performance starts to drop/stutter, and when I check hwmonitor it's at 86+ C and the fans aren't running. If I check if the Xtreme software is running it never is, and I have to manually restart the program for the fans to kick on. I've checked drivers, reinstalled the gigabyte software, updated windows, I dont understand what is up with this. I've had this card for years and I've never had the fans not turn on besides the past few weeks. Does anyone have any idea on what's happening with my system? I have just upgraded the rest of my rig besides the GPU, but this was happening before the upgrade as well, and I moved my C drive and HDD to the new build. [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Can I mount a 120mm fan onto a NH-D15? Posted: 24 Nov 2019 01:29 PM PST Ok, so I've just decided on a NH-D15 for my PC, but because of RAM clearance, I can't put the intake Fan at the front (I am unable to move it any higher). However, I can't put it at the back either due to there being an exhaust fan there that is too big for another one to fit alongside (on the cooler). So, I decided to check if I could mount a 120mm fan onto the NH-D15.
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Looking to buy a (budget) graphics card Posted: 24 Nov 2019 11:08 AM PST I'm looking for a really budget graphics card that could fit in the Element Gaming Hyperion Micro ATX Case. Please could I get an answer? Thanks! [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
First PC build after years of dealing with dying laptops Posted: 24 Nov 2019 01:16 PM PST What will this PC be used for? This build will be used primarily for gaming. I also plan to use it as a home office workstation for email, heavy excel use, and some web design. If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? I will not be playing anything competitively - likely will mostly be single player gaming. I am planning on adding a VR headset in the next year. What is your budget (ballpark is okay)? Around $2500 CAD including monitor, but not keyboard/mouse In what country are you purchasing your parts? Canada Post a draft of your potential build here (specific parts please). [PCPartPicker Part List](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/QTdsXv) Type|Item|Price :----|:----|:---- **CPU** | [AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/9nm323/amd-ryzen-5-3600-36-thz-6-core-processor-100-100000031box) | $254.75 @ Vuugo **CPU Cooler** | [be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 50.5 CFM CPU Cooler](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/F3gzK8/be-quiet-dark-rock-pro-4-505-cfm-cpu-cooler-bk022) | $109.99 @ Mike's Computer Shop **Motherboard** | [MSI B450 GAMING PRO CARBON AC ATX AM4 Motherboard](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/t797YJ/msi-b450-gaming-pro-carbon-ac-atx-am4-motherboard-b450-gaming-pro-carbon-ac) | $179.99 @ Canada Computers **Memory** | [Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/VNJtt6/corsair-16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-cmk16gx4m2d3600c18) | $115.99 @ Newegg Canada **Storage** | [Samsung 970 Evo Plus 250 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/BDYLrH/samsung-970-evo-plus-250-gb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-mz-v7s250bw) | $89.95 @ Vuugo **Storage** | [Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/pxKcCJ/crucial-p1-1tb-m2-2280-solid-state-drive-ct1000p1ssd8) | $128.99 @ Vuugo **Video Card** | [Gigabyte Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB GAMING OC Video Card](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/6kdrxr/gigabyte-radeon-rx-5700-xt-8-gb-gaming-oc-video-card-gv-r57xtgaming-oc-8gd) | $534.50 @ Vuugo **Case** | [Cooler Master MasterCase H500P Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/M3kj4D/cooler-master-mastercase-h500p-mesh-atx-mid-tower-case-mcm-h500p-mgnn-s10) | $174.99 @ Memory Express **Power Supply** | [EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/dMM323/evga-supernova-g3-750w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-220-g3-0750) | $168.99 @ Vuugo **Monitor** | [Acer XB271HU bmiprz 27.0" 2560x1440 165 Hz Monitor](https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/ttnG3C/acer-monitor-xb271hubmiprz) | $719.99 @ Amazon Canada | *Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts* | | **Total** | **$2478.13** | Generated by [PCPartPicker](https://pcpartpicker.com) 2019-11-24 16:18 EST-0500 | Provide any additional details you wish below. I am planning on using the 256GB EVO as a boot drive and for select games/apps. I'll be linking up an external HDD for backups. I know the PSU is overkill, but it has a 10 year warranty and I plan on upgrading before then. The monitor is just a placeholder - my choice will be pretty similar, but ultimately determined by BF pricing. [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I Made A Subreddit For Integrated Graphics Posted: 24 Nov 2019 12:40 AM PST I made a new subreddit which revolves around integrated graphics. Feel free to check it out and post a few things there if you can! [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Need to know if their is anything I need to add Posted: 24 Nov 2019 01:01 PM PST This is my pc part picker list if there is anything I should add to the list or need for it to work better tell me please CPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/QwMRTC CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($234.74 @ Amazon) CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black Edition 42 CFM CPU Cooler ($36.99 @ Amazon) Motherboard: MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($139.99 @ Amazon) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($64.98 @ Amazon) Storage: Gigabyte AORUS NVMe Gen4 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($209.99 @ Amazon) Video Card: PowerColor Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB Red Devil Video Card ($423.98 @ Newegg) Case: NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.98 @ Amazon) Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($94.99 @ Best Buy) Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($99.95 @ Amazon) Monitor: Alienware AW2518HF 24.5" 1920x1080 240 Hz Monitor ($318.99 @ Best Buy) Keyboard: Razer Huntsman Elite Wired Gaming Keyboard ($198.00 @ Amazon) Mouse: Razer Viper Ultimate Wireless Optical Mouse ($149.99 @ Amazon) Total: $2042.57 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-24 15:32 EST-0500 [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: 24 Nov 2019 10:43 AM PST I'm looking to build a good gaming PC for around 1-1.2k not including monitor. I want to use it for games like Overwatch, Borderlands, Etc... Would anyone be able to check my list for rookie mistakes or better options? I couldn't decide which monitor to use, so I included both I was considering. 200-240hz is what I'm interested in.
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In full panic mode over my first build Posted: 24 Nov 2019 12:55 PM PST I'm going to build my first pc soon (waiting for black friday / cyber monday sales) and as it get's closer and closer I'm starting to panic and thinking this was a huge mistake. These are the parts I'm going to buy, but now I realised I need more stuff than that.. I think?? I'm a complete noob when it comes to this.. I'm not that worried about the building process itself, but having wrong/missing parts. So. What cable should I get for that monitor? DisplayPort? Just realised that I'm going to need a Wifi Adapter.. How do I choose which one I need?? And do I need an extra fan? I'm suddenly really worried about overheating If there is anything, any seemingly unimportant part I could still need, please let me know. I am scared [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Posted: 24 Nov 2019 12:37 PM PST What is the best option to gaming, take dual channel but 2666 speed or only one channel but very fast (3600)? [link] [comments] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
144hz 1080p Max settings gaming build Posted: 24 Nov 2019 10:22 AM PST Build Help/Ready:Have you read the sidebar and rules? (Please do) Yes What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better. Heavy gaming, dev work If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? (Screen resolution, framerate, game settings) 1920x1080, 100+, max What is your budget (ballpark is okay)? ~2k In what country are you purchasing your parts? UK Post a draft of your potential build here (specific parts please). Consider formatting your parts list. Don't ask to be spoonfed a build (read the rules!). Looking for advice on whether there are any red flags with this build? Would also like to cut down cost to 1-1.5 if possible but don't have a good grasp on where I can cut corners and still get the performance I want, if at all. I haven't considered doing a big upgrade in a long time, still have an i5 2500k at ~4.2 but it feels like it's getting time to move on [link] [comments] |
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